Register  |  Home  |  Chat   |  ArmaBrowser  |  HowTo  |  Wiki  |  ServerStats  |  Donate  |  Forum  |  MapTools  |  Servers  |  Log in 
Forums
Information Desk
Latest News
Round Table
Servers
Trainees
Challenge us!
Off Topic

Clan Information
Public Clan Information
Active CTers+Trainees
All CTers+Trainees
Inactive CTers
CTers Earth Map
CT Groups
CT Medals
Armahacktron Wiki
Forum Ranks
Won/Lost Battles

Servers and Maps
ArmaBrowser
BFC New Ladder
CT Server Ladders
CT Mayhem Ladder
CTWF New Ladder
CT Server Maps
Flower Power Sumo Assault
Map Tools
Want to help? Donate

Jumble
Home Forum
Calendar Chat Messenger IRC
Forum Members
Links FAQ
News View Online

Search

Advanced Search

User Block
Username:

Password:

 Remember me



I forgot my password

Don't have an account yet?
You can register for FREE


Reply to topic
  
Addict
CT Rank: Not a CTer
Field's place:
Grid Name:
GID: 1200@ct/public
CT Wild Fort Rank:
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: W3632 Posts

Reply with quote
Is the goal to conquer center ?

Well the goal is to be the last one surviving when the round ends. And a popular strategy that i thought a lot people do at the start is to gain the control of the center as part of the zone they occupy.


I'd rather thought a fair situation will be one where all players will/might have the opportunity to conquer an (almost) equal share of the zone as close as possible from center.

Yes i think so too.


Taking this into account, none of the situation above are fair as 1 of 2 players have the opportunity to conquer almost half the zone depending of the third player turns, while this last player can't ...



I'm assuming you are talking about my spawn configuration. I think in a real game situation Team 2 that spawns in the 45 degree angle (to x/y axis) would try to get to the center by zig zagging rather than move along the path i drew inorder to avoid letting one of the teams get a large zone....That means that they need to make more turns to get to the center and it may balances out with the fact that they are a little closer to the center...
View user's profile Find all posts by 1200 Send private message
  
Crazy Tronner
Server Tech
Honorary Member
Bowl Winner (Amount: 1) defender, 3rd rank (Amount: 1) Fortress Cafe Tournament 1 Winner (Amount: 1) Map Maker (Amount: 1)
CT Rank: 14
Field's place: def-sweep
Grid Name: CT~Voodoo
GID: Voodoo@ct/jedi
CT Wild Fort Rank: na
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 14R361467 Posts
Location: somewhere on earth
Reply with quote
Not only yours actually. All configuration I've seen so far including current one Wink
View user's profile Find all posts by Voodoo Send private message Yahoo Messenger
  
Addict
CT Rank: Not a CTer
Field's place:
Grid Name:
GID: 1200@ct/public
CT Wild Fort Rank:
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: W3632 Posts

Reply with quote
Taking this into account, none of the situation above are fair as 1 of 2 players have the opportunity to conquer almost half the zone depending of the third player turns, while this last player can't ...


Well if what i am talking about isn't what you're talking about, i'm not following your point. Could you explain a little more?
View user's profile Find all posts by 1200 Send private message
  
Crazy Tronner
Server Tech
Honorary Member
Bowl Winner (Amount: 1) defender, 3rd rank (Amount: 1) Fortress Cafe Tournament 1 Winner (Amount: 1) Map Maker (Amount: 1)
CT Rank: 14
Field's place: def-sweep
Grid Name: CT~Voodoo
GID: Voodoo@ct/jedi
CT Wild Fort Rank: na
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 14R361467 Posts
Location: somewhere on earth
Reply with quote
The point is that if you're just try to make it so each players are equally spaced and need the same amount of time to reach the zones center, due to the 4 axes issue, you're always facing the same situation : 3 players reaching center in a 4 axes map.
Which means wherever the spawn points are placed, you'll faced 2 possible situations :

* All 3 players coming from a different direction. That's the current situation due to spawn points position and direction and you said it's unfair for the player in the middle
* 2 coming along the same axe (because they faced each other on 1 side of the zone and obviously have to go to zones centers), the other player coming from 1 of the 3 other directions. 2 cases then :
- the other player is coming from the opposite side, depending on the direction he's going to take once he reach the center, 1 of the 2 other will have the opportunity to conquer almost half the zone
- he's coming from 1 "side", the player coming from the other side will have the opportunity to conquer half the zone

In both cases, it will be unfair due to the 4 axes/ 3 players issue...

So my question : does it worth the effort/complexity/confusion (as dev/map maker/player) to make things fairer considering it will never be really fair ?

Personally, I think the current situation (I mean the normal one for sumo, not the current "open sumo" one) is fair enough.

The only thing that can be done would be to equally spread players among "pods" and to assign remaining players. Ex : 6 players will be 3/3 instead of 4/2, 7 players will be 3/3 + 1 player assigned to 1 of the 2 pods randomly (or alternatively to top/bottom score table).

/me 's not sure all this thing is really clear now Wink
View user's profile Find all posts by Voodoo Send private message Yahoo Messenger
  
Addict
CT Rank: Not a CTer
Field's place:
Grid Name:
GID: 1200@ct/public
CT Wild Fort Rank:
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: W3632 Posts

Reply with quote
- the other player is coming from the opposite side, depending on the direction he's going to take once he reach the center, 1 of the 2 other will have the opportunity to conquer almost half the zone
- he's coming from 1 "side", the player coming from the other side will have the opportunity to conquer half the zone


You keep saying this but you are not explaining how it is possible for one team to conquer almost half the zone. I really don't think that is the case.
I am going to try to guess what you're saying:

So if all three teams approaches the center and meet near the center at the start and if two teams turn to the same way from the center and get in a close head to head battle to capitalize the zone then the third team that is alone and free has a chance to gain a large amount of the zone. (i think they only gain a slightly more then 1/3 of the zone if that.)
Perhaps this is true but i don't think the spawn configurations we are talking about gives any team any advantage. I think the way each round turns out is decided by the play style of each team and chance. So its fair.



does it worth the effort/complexity/confusion (as dev/map maker/player) to make things fairer considering it will never be really fair ?

We all agreed that the current spawn configuration is not fair to the team that spawns in the middle. I'm just suggesting to make things fairer. Any improvement from the current spawn configuration is worth it but I don't know how much effort is required to do it. I know its not going to be absolutely fair and equal condition for each team due to the limitations like the spawn directions but i think our ideal should be is to get as close as possible.

Personally, I think the current situation (I mean the normal one for sumo, not the current "open sumo" one) is fair enough.

Which server are u referring to for "the normal sumo one"???

The only thing that can be done would be to equally spread players among "pods" and to assign remaining players. Ex : 6 players will be 3/3 instead of 4/2, 7 players will be 3/3 + 1 player assigned to 1 of the 2 pods randomly (or alternatively to top/bottom score table).

Yes agreed for 6 players. For the 7 player situation, i am inclined to think that there should be 3 players in the zone with players with less points because they shouldn't be given an extra chance to get more points because of their poor performance in preceding rounds. Random may give more chance to the 4th placed team to gain points than to the 3rd placed team if the 4th placed team gets to play in a zone with four teams.
View user's profile Find all posts by 1200 Send private message
  
Crazy Tronner
Server Tech
Honorary Member
Bowl Winner (Amount: 1) defender, 3rd rank (Amount: 1) Fortress Cafe Tournament 1 Winner (Amount: 1) Map Maker (Amount: 1)
CT Rank: 14
Field's place: def-sweep
Grid Name: CT~Voodoo
GID: Voodoo@ct/jedi
CT Wild Fort Rank: na
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 14R361467 Posts
Location: somewhere on earth
Reply with quote
1200 wrote:
Which server are u referring to for "the normal sumo one"???

The one included in armagetron distribution ... not the one that is currently defined (or was last time I've been there) at ctos.

1200 wrote:
We all agreed that the current spawn configuration is not fair to the team that spawns in the middle.

You're right, but I say that there's no spawn config which will be fair, because of the 3 players/4 axes issue. I've tried to figure out a solution since you've started this thread. I've find none.

Let's look at your proposal. The basic moves almost everyone will do to reach center as fast as possible are the one you've drawn, minimizing the number of turns. So what's the difference with the unfair standard spawn config ? According to me : none. You'll go straight and do 1 turn to go to center. And the 3 players finally reach center in the same unfair configuration.

So what are the options :
- Changing spawn position don't make it fairer cause the situation reaching center will remain the same.
- Changing direction will make it worst cause 2 players will face each other on their way to center ...
- Keep it as it is and let players deal with this with smart moves and skills ...

For now, I vote for standard configuration.

1200 wrote:
i am inclined to think that there should be 3 players in the zone with players with less points because they shouldn't be given an extra chance to get more points because of their poor performance in preceding rounds.


I'm inclined to think the opposite. At the end, when you score at soccer/football, you let the ball to opponents for next kick-off no ? That's not fair neither but everybody accept it as a rule ... What are the arguments to give this extra chance to leading teams except "this is unfair" ? So far I'm not convinced by this argument ...[/img]
View user's profile Find all posts by Voodoo Send private message Yahoo Messenger
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
All times are GMT  
Page 4 of 4  

  
  
 Reply to topic  Post a reply  

free counters